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	<title>Comments on: The Iceman Cometh (1973)</title>
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	<description>MovieMorlocks.com is the official blog for Turner Classic Movies (TCM). No topic is too obscure or niche to be excluded from our film discussions. And we welcome your comments on our blogs and bloggers.</description>
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		<title>By: keelsetter</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/11/08/the-iceman-cometh-1973/#comment-10958</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[keelsetter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=15814#comment-10958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, Al -

Thanks for all your observations. I hate to admit this, but I&#039;ve never seen BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK. But having now seen the trailer I know to add it to my list for future screenings. The wide open vistas intersected by a train alone would sell me, the great cast is gravy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Al -</p>
<p>Thanks for all your observations. I hate to admit this, but I&#8217;ve never seen BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK. But having now seen the trailer I know to add it to my list for future screenings. The wide open vistas intersected by a train alone would sell me, the great cast is gravy.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Lowe</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/11/08/the-iceman-cometh-1973/#comment-10951</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Al Lowe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=15814#comment-10951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just spent four hours watching THE ICEMAN COMETH VHS that I own.

The big attractions were Ryan and March - although many of the others are quite good too - Marvin, Moses Gunn, Bridges, the lesser known performers - and Bradford Dillman, who was probably never better.
(I worked 30 years ago with a man who was then Dillman&#039;s former father-in-law. This man told me he once found himself uneasy at a Hollywood party. He tried to make conversation with some well-known actor - maybe Robert Wagner? -  and another famous actor came over to join the conversation. Wagner - or whoever - told the other actor that the father-in-law was just telling how much he disliked the actor&#039;s shoes. The father-in-law was left speechless.)

I mean no disrespect to Marvin. I know that Hickey is usually considered the starring part in the play. But this is Ryan&#039;s picture. He dominates it and is brilliant in it. March is pretty amazing too. I feel sad that they didn&#039;t get Oscar nods for their work.
Maybe audiences didn&#039;t quite know who Ryan was (although I did) but this movie was not destined to attract crowds anyway. It is a filmed stage play and I suspect the normal audience, not devotees of great acting, might have been bored by it.
I am also sad that Ryan received third billing, after Marvin and March.
I don&#039;t think I ever saw a bad Ryan performance. He was generally much better than his material.
I&#039;ve seen all of his famous films but I am probably most familiar with BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK because I&#039;m a big Spencer Tracy fan. I&#039;ve seen it many times. Not too many actors could hold their own with Tracy, other than Hepburn of course. For example, I thought March gave one of his rare bad performances in INHERIT THE WIND. But Ryan creates a character out of what is written to be a stock villain. His Smith is a person.
Unlike Ryan, Tracy never tried O&#039;Neill. And he should have, just as Ryan should have frequently starred in his plays.
I saved my viewing of ICEMAN for when I had time to watch it all again. And it was wonderful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just spent four hours watching THE ICEMAN COMETH VHS that I own.</p>
<p>The big attractions were Ryan and March &#8211; although many of the others are quite good too &#8211; Marvin, Moses Gunn, Bridges, the lesser known performers &#8211; and Bradford Dillman, who was probably never better.<br />
(I worked 30 years ago with a man who was then Dillman&#8217;s former father-in-law. This man told me he once found himself uneasy at a Hollywood party. He tried to make conversation with some well-known actor &#8211; maybe Robert Wagner? &#8211;  and another famous actor came over to join the conversation. Wagner &#8211; or whoever &#8211; told the other actor that the father-in-law was just telling how much he disliked the actor&#8217;s shoes. The father-in-law was left speechless.)</p>
<p>I mean no disrespect to Marvin. I know that Hickey is usually considered the starring part in the play. But this is Ryan&#8217;s picture. He dominates it and is brilliant in it. March is pretty amazing too. I feel sad that they didn&#8217;t get Oscar nods for their work.<br />
Maybe audiences didn&#8217;t quite know who Ryan was (although I did) but this movie was not destined to attract crowds anyway. It is a filmed stage play and I suspect the normal audience, not devotees of great acting, might have been bored by it.<br />
I am also sad that Ryan received third billing, after Marvin and March.<br />
I don&#8217;t think I ever saw a bad Ryan performance. He was generally much better than his material.<br />
I&#8217;ve seen all of his famous films but I am probably most familiar with BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK because I&#8217;m a big Spencer Tracy fan. I&#8217;ve seen it many times. Not too many actors could hold their own with Tracy, other than Hepburn of course. For example, I thought March gave one of his rare bad performances in INHERIT THE WIND. But Ryan creates a character out of what is written to be a stock villain. His Smith is a person.<br />
Unlike Ryan, Tracy never tried O&#8217;Neill. And he should have, just as Ryan should have frequently starred in his plays.<br />
I saved my viewing of ICEMAN for when I had time to watch it all again. And it was wonderful.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Kawasaki</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/11/08/the-iceman-cometh-1973/#comment-10688</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Kawasaki]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=15814#comment-10688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Robert Ryan&#039;s invisible Oscar

Robert Ryan left us so many excellent performances. They are all authentic, un-fussy, soulful, and moving. Though, he never received an Oscar. Maybe, because most of his masterpieces are somewhat restrained artistic experiments rather than pure entertainment.

He should have been nominated for his performances in the films like, THE SET-UP, ON DANGEROUS GROUND, CLASH BY NIGHT, THE NAKED SPUR, INFERNO, ABOUT MRS.LESLIE, BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK, GOD&#039;S LITTLE ACRE, ODDS AGAINST TOMORROW, BILLY BUDD, and THE WILD BUNCH. His last triumph in THE ICEMAN COMETH certainly should have him earned an Oscar for the best actor. His portrayal of Larry the anarchist is magnificent indeed. There weren&#039;t any exaggerations in his part that it seems Ryan truely became Larry Slade himself. There are so many memorable performers in the film but Robert Ryan is definitely steals the film, and his role is crucial one for the entire project.

At least, I was relieved to hear that National Board of Review awarded him with the best actor prize in 1973. Sadly, he never make it to receive the prize.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Ryan&#8217;s invisible Oscar</p>
<p>Robert Ryan left us so many excellent performances. They are all authentic, un-fussy, soulful, and moving. Though, he never received an Oscar. Maybe, because most of his masterpieces are somewhat restrained artistic experiments rather than pure entertainment.</p>
<p>He should have been nominated for his performances in the films like, THE SET-UP, ON DANGEROUS GROUND, CLASH BY NIGHT, THE NAKED SPUR, INFERNO, ABOUT MRS.LESLIE, BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK, GOD&#8217;S LITTLE ACRE, ODDS AGAINST TOMORROW, BILLY BUDD, and THE WILD BUNCH. His last triumph in THE ICEMAN COMETH certainly should have him earned an Oscar for the best actor. His portrayal of Larry the anarchist is magnificent indeed. There weren&#8217;t any exaggerations in his part that it seems Ryan truely became Larry Slade himself. There are so many memorable performers in the film but Robert Ryan is definitely steals the film, and his role is crucial one for the entire project.</p>
<p>At least, I was relieved to hear that National Board of Review awarded him with the best actor prize in 1973. Sadly, he never make it to receive the prize.</p>
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		<title>By: Keelsetter</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/11/08/the-iceman-cometh-1973/#comment-10657</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Keelsetter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=15814#comment-10657</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent points all around. Marvin is certainly deserving of more attention, but since we happened to be covering Ryan he got short shrift here.

Interesting that you should mention film studies courses as my first introduction to THE ICEMAN COMETH was thanks to a Eugene O&#039;Neill course tought by Stan Brakhage in the late nineties. He was adamant about including the &#039;73 production in his class, even though it was not available at the time. He eventually used his personal clout to secure a shoddy VHS tape directly from Frankenheimer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent points all around. Marvin is certainly deserving of more attention, but since we happened to be covering Ryan he got short shrift here.</p>
<p>Interesting that you should mention film studies courses as my first introduction to THE ICEMAN COMETH was thanks to a Eugene O&#8217;Neill course tought by Stan Brakhage in the late nineties. He was adamant about including the &#8217;73 production in his class, even though it was not available at the time. He eventually used his personal clout to secure a shoddy VHS tape directly from Frankenheimer.</p>
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		<title>By: kingrat</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/11/08/the-iceman-cometh-1973/#comment-10655</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kingrat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=15814#comment-10655</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s worth noting that when The Iceman Cometh was released, Robert Ryan had minimal marquee value. Older filmgoers would have known him, but the name and face would have been only vaguely familiar to most under-35 moviegoers. He would have been perceived as an actor from B-Movies of the past. He&#039;d been in one recent hit movie, The Wild Bunch (1969), but that film attaracted attention only for Sam Peckinpah. Lee Marvin, on the other hand, was a star. Marvin got noticed in a prestigious picture, Ship of Fools; won an Oscar for Cat Ballou; and headlined the enormously successful The Dirty Dozen.

For the most part, colleges had just started offering film studies, and film noir wouldn&#039;t necessarily have been included. Few of the people who saw The Iceman Cometh in 1973 would ever have seen Crossfire or The Set-Up or On Dangerous Ground. The vogue for film noir led to the rediscovery of Robert Ryan. His reputation as an actor has probably never been higher than it is today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s worth noting that when The Iceman Cometh was released, Robert Ryan had minimal marquee value. Older filmgoers would have known him, but the name and face would have been only vaguely familiar to most under-35 moviegoers. He would have been perceived as an actor from B-Movies of the past. He&#8217;d been in one recent hit movie, The Wild Bunch (1969), but that film attaracted attention only for Sam Peckinpah. Lee Marvin, on the other hand, was a star. Marvin got noticed in a prestigious picture, Ship of Fools; won an Oscar for Cat Ballou; and headlined the enormously successful The Dirty Dozen.</p>
<p>For the most part, colleges had just started offering film studies, and film noir wouldn&#8217;t necessarily have been included. Few of the people who saw The Iceman Cometh in 1973 would ever have seen Crossfire or The Set-Up or On Dangerous Ground. The vogue for film noir led to the rediscovery of Robert Ryan. His reputation as an actor has probably never been higher than it is today.</p>
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		<title>By: keelsetter</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/11/08/the-iceman-cometh-1973/#comment-10622</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[keelsetter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=15814#comment-10622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I understand the points being made about THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, but if we are to quibble over the meaning of &quot;mainstream audiences&quot; let me only concede half-way. The film was indeed scuttled upon its original release - removed from circulation due, in part, to its prescient and uncomfortable proximity to the Kennedy assassination. It was then revived in 1988 to great acclaim (Jerry&#039;s astute observation that I didn&#039;t see the film during the original 1962 release was spot on - I saw it in 1988). So I&#039;ll concede it was not mainstream during its original release, but it has, since then, entered into mainstream consciousness as one the best films of Frankenheimer&#039;s oeuvre.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand the points being made about THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, but if we are to quibble over the meaning of &#8220;mainstream audiences&#8221; let me only concede half-way. The film was indeed scuttled upon its original release &#8211; removed from circulation due, in part, to its prescient and uncomfortable proximity to the Kennedy assassination. It was then revived in 1988 to great acclaim (Jerry&#8217;s astute observation that I didn&#8217;t see the film during the original 1962 release was spot on &#8211; I saw it in 1988). So I&#8217;ll concede it was not mainstream during its original release, but it has, since then, entered into mainstream consciousness as one the best films of Frankenheimer&#8217;s oeuvre.</p>
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		<title>By: kingrat</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/11/08/the-iceman-cometh-1973/#comment-10614</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kingrat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=15814#comment-10614</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ryan also received excellent reviews for playing the father in an off-Broadway production of Long Day&#039;s Journey Into Night.

Jerry Kovar is right about The Manchurian Candidate. This film was never considered mainstream, unlike Birdman of Alcatraz, a project JF took over when it was in trouble. The Manchurian Candidate wasn&#039;t praised by either the establishment or by auteurist critics. It was a cult film until seen again in the 1980s, and only then was it recognized as a stylish masterpiece.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan also received excellent reviews for playing the father in an off-Broadway production of Long Day&#8217;s Journey Into Night.</p>
<p>Jerry Kovar is right about The Manchurian Candidate. This film was never considered mainstream, unlike Birdman of Alcatraz, a project JF took over when it was in trouble. The Manchurian Candidate wasn&#8217;t praised by either the establishment or by auteurist critics. It was a cult film until seen again in the 1980s, and only then was it recognized as a stylish masterpiece.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Harland Smith</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/11/08/the-iceman-cometh-1973/#comment-10610</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Harland Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=15814#comment-10610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now here&#039;s a sentence you will never hear in a movie trailer again, ever, ever:

&quot;The greatest American work of the theatre is now an extraordinary film.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now here&#8217;s a sentence you will never hear in a movie trailer again, ever, ever:</p>
<p>&#8220;The greatest American work of the theatre is now an extraordinary film.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: keelsetter</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/11/08/the-iceman-cometh-1973/#comment-10609</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[keelsetter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=15814#comment-10609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jerry - When talking about Frankenheimer I could have picked BIRDMAN OF ALCATRAZ (1962) and THE TRAIN (1964), but MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE did get two Oscar nominations and remains an enduring film that is still oft quoted in popular culture. As to RONIN, I picked that because it cracks me up that the same guy that could film an adrenaline-fueled car-chase sequence with Robert DeNiro and rocket launchers is also the same man who could so perfectly and subtly capture the nuance and grace of Eugene O&#039;Neill. Frankenheimer had his share of duds, but he is a fascinating and talented director and I have a soft spot for him. Heck, I might also be one of the few people out there that thought PROPHECY (his mutant bear film) was a ton of fun.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry &#8211; When talking about Frankenheimer I could have picked BIRDMAN OF ALCATRAZ (1962) and THE TRAIN (1964), but MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE did get two Oscar nominations and remains an enduring film that is still oft quoted in popular culture. As to RONIN, I picked that because it cracks me up that the same guy that could film an adrenaline-fueled car-chase sequence with Robert DeNiro and rocket launchers is also the same man who could so perfectly and subtly capture the nuance and grace of Eugene O&#8217;Neill. Frankenheimer had his share of duds, but he is a fascinating and talented director and I have a soft spot for him. Heck, I might also be one of the few people out there that thought PROPHECY (his mutant bear film) was a ton of fun.</p>
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		<title>By: medusamorlock</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/11/08/the-iceman-cometh-1973/#comment-10608</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[medusamorlock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[That trailer certainly whets the appetite for this, and your article clinches the deal!  I must watch this! It&#039;s wonderful to see the under-appreciated Bradford Dillman in a key role, too!

Wonderful article!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That trailer certainly whets the appetite for this, and your article clinches the deal!  I must watch this! It&#8217;s wonderful to see the under-appreciated Bradford Dillman in a key role, too!</p>
<p>Wonderful article!</p>
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