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	<title>Comments on: In the Loop with The Group (1966)</title>
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	<description>MovieMorlocks.com is the official blog for Turner Classic Movies (TCM). No topic is too obscure or niche to be excluded from our film discussions. And we welcome your comments on our blogs and bloggers.</description>
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		<title>By: Al Lowe</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/09/16/in-the-loop-with-the-group-1966/#comment-10268</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Al Lowe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=14326#comment-10268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it is worth mentioning that Mary McCarthy had an equally famous actor brother - Kevin McCarthy, best known for Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

I would have liked to listen to those two siblings&#039; conversations.

The TCM database says Kevin,in his 90s,is still acting. God bless him!

He was a buddy of Monty Clift for a while but, unlike Clift, was not gay. He is also one of the last surviving cast members of The Misfits. Marilyn and Gable were the first to go. Then Clift and Thelma Ritter. None of them survived The Sixties. Is Eli Wallach still alive and active? I liked and listened to his commentary for The Magnificent Seven DVD.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is worth mentioning that Mary McCarthy had an equally famous actor brother &#8211; Kevin McCarthy, best known for Invasion of the Body Snatchers.</p>
<p>I would have liked to listen to those two siblings&#8217; conversations.</p>
<p>The TCM database says Kevin,in his 90s,is still acting. God bless him!</p>
<p>He was a buddy of Monty Clift for a while but, unlike Clift, was not gay. He is also one of the last surviving cast members of The Misfits. Marilyn and Gable were the first to go. Then Clift and Thelma Ritter. None of them survived The Sixties. Is Eli Wallach still alive and active? I liked and listened to his commentary for The Magnificent Seven DVD.</p>
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		<title>By: Bronxgirl</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/09/16/in-the-loop-with-the-group-1966/#comment-10153</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bronxgirl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 04:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=14326#comment-10153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A fan club too.

(I guess I think he&#039;s fab)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A fan club too.</p>
<p>(I guess I think he&#8217;s fab)</p>
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		<title>By: Bronxgirl</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/09/16/in-the-loop-with-the-group-1966/#comment-10152</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bronxgirl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 04:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=14326#comment-10152</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I remember &quot;Family&quot; -- For some reason I never cared for Sada Thompson.  Something about her really turned me off -- her shifty looking, raisinette, piggy little eyes, I&#039;m not quite sure, but I wanted James Broderick to be married to someone else.

I might start a James Broderick fab club, lol.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember &#8220;Family&#8221; &#8212; For some reason I never cared for Sada Thompson.  Something about her really turned me off &#8212; her shifty looking, raisinette, piggy little eyes, I&#8217;m not quite sure, but I wanted James Broderick to be married to someone else.</p>
<p>I might start a James Broderick fab club, lol.</p>
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		<title>By: moirafinnie</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/09/16/in-the-loop-with-the-group-1966/#comment-10068</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[moirafinnie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=14326#comment-10068</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, CineMaven,
I thought that the chick flick &quot;Thirteen Women&quot; covered some of the same ground as &quot;The Group&quot;, though of course, it did so at a fraction of the production cost and was much more concise in its snappy early talkie pre-code way. I couldn&#039;t help wondering who would have played the roles if the McCarthy story had been made in the period in which it was set.

Bronxgirl,
How cool that you got to tell Shirley Knight that you&#039;d liked her work. I think that James Broderick may have been the only male who got through this movie without being parodied or vilified by the script. Does anyone remember him as the father in the late &#039;70s tv series, &quot;Family&quot;? His role required him to be an unflappable father with social and emotional turbulence swirling around him. While I always liked Broderick, just once in awhile, I would have liked to see him &quot;act out&quot; like all the distressed people around him in his various appearances.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, CineMaven,<br />
I thought that the chick flick &#8220;Thirteen Women&#8221; covered some of the same ground as &#8220;The Group&#8221;, though of course, it did so at a fraction of the production cost and was much more concise in its snappy early talkie pre-code way. I couldn&#8217;t help wondering who would have played the roles if the McCarthy story had been made in the period in which it was set.</p>
<p>Bronxgirl,<br />
How cool that you got to tell Shirley Knight that you&#8217;d liked her work. I think that James Broderick may have been the only male who got through this movie without being parodied or vilified by the script. Does anyone remember him as the father in the late &#8217;70s tv series, &#8220;Family&#8221;? His role required him to be an unflappable father with social and emotional turbulence swirling around him. While I always liked Broderick, just once in awhile, I would have liked to see him &#8220;act out&#8221; like all the distressed people around him in his various appearances.</p>
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		<title>By: Bronxgirl</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/09/16/in-the-loop-with-the-group-1966/#comment-10054</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bronxgirl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=14326#comment-10054</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Every tgime I watch that scene with Norine and Helena, I actually get an urge to run out and buy a pint of Dannon.

Now that I think about it, you&#039;re absolutely right about Jennifer Jason&#039;s Leigh being more enervating (although Babra as Doris Wilgus Washington Whatever in my fave Streisand film, THE OWL AND THE PUSSYCAT, gives Felix (and us) a refresher course on the word meaning the opposite of what it sounds like, lol)

Larry Hagman as Harald never fails to crack me up; I mean, I always laugh my head off.  He plays the character with a maniacal
self-loathing.  I certainly agree with you about the girls&#039; choices.  I&#039;m a bit dreamy-eyed in a strange way over James Brocericks&#039;s doctor.  He reminds me a little of James Craig in KITTY FOYLE, only drawn more realistically.  (my favorite character in Lumet&#039;s DOG DAY AFTERNOON, a fave of mine, amid all the colorful acting, is actually Broderick&#039;s quiet but deadly-efficient F.B.I. man)

I met Shirley Knight when she walked into Chicago&#039;s Gino&#039;s Pizza about 12 years ago where I was working in the evening.  I recognized her immediately and waited on her.  I told her I really liked her as Polly in THE GROUP, and she was surprised that I remembered her in it, &quot;You have a good memory&quot;.  Then she told me she had a new movie coming out. (turned out to be AS GOOD AS IT GETS)  She left a good tip.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every tgime I watch that scene with Norine and Helena, I actually get an urge to run out and buy a pint of Dannon.</p>
<p>Now that I think about it, you&#8217;re absolutely right about Jennifer Jason&#8217;s Leigh being more enervating (although Babra as Doris Wilgus Washington Whatever in my fave Streisand film, THE OWL AND THE PUSSYCAT, gives Felix (and us) a refresher course on the word meaning the opposite of what it sounds like, lol)</p>
<p>Larry Hagman as Harald never fails to crack me up; I mean, I always laugh my head off.  He plays the character with a maniacal<br />
self-loathing.  I certainly agree with you about the girls&#8217; choices.  I&#8217;m a bit dreamy-eyed in a strange way over James Brocericks&#8217;s doctor.  He reminds me a little of James Craig in KITTY FOYLE, only drawn more realistically.  (my favorite character in Lumet&#8217;s DOG DAY AFTERNOON, a fave of mine, amid all the colorful acting, is actually Broderick&#8217;s quiet but deadly-efficient F.B.I. man)</p>
<p>I met Shirley Knight when she walked into Chicago&#8217;s Gino&#8217;s Pizza about 12 years ago where I was working in the evening.  I recognized her immediately and waited on her.  I told her I really liked her as Polly in THE GROUP, and she was surprised that I remembered her in it, &#8220;You have a good memory&#8221;.  Then she told me she had a new movie coming out. (turned out to be AS GOOD AS IT GETS)  She left a good tip.</p>
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		<title>By: CineMaven</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/09/16/in-the-loop-with-the-group-1966/#comment-10052</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CineMaven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=14326#comment-10052</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh my...I forgot to add Moira, that that was a brilliant piece of casting you submitted when you put some thirties babes into the proceedings. You know your movies!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my&#8230;I forgot to add Moira, that that was a brilliant piece of casting you submitted when you put some thirties babes into the proceedings. You know your movies!!</p>
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		<title>By: CineMaven</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/09/16/in-the-loop-with-the-group-1966/#comment-10051</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CineMaven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=14326#comment-10051</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What a really enjoyable read. And I loved the summation by Moira and Sharir on how &quot;The Group&quot; ended. I also liked how &quot;Thirteen Women&quot; was thrown in there as a sample of this type of film. 

I&#039;ve got to visit you Morlocks more often.

This is a site that has it goin&#039; on!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a really enjoyable read. And I loved the summation by Moira and Sharir on how &#8220;The Group&#8221; ended. I also liked how &#8220;Thirteen Women&#8221; was thrown in there as a sample of this type of film. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got to visit you Morlocks more often.</p>
<p>This is a site that has it goin&#8217; on!</p>
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		<title>By: moirafinnie</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/09/16/in-the-loop-with-the-group-1966/#comment-10046</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[moirafinnie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 00:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=14326#comment-10046</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bronxgirl asked:
&quot;Has anyone been able to figure out what it is that Carrie Nye is EATING as she’s having that little talk in her boho apt. with the sexless mule? Is it yoghurt? Is it sheep dip? Is it ranch dressing? Just what is the white stuff she’s sinously slurping down with that giant spoon? (is Lumet telling us something?)&quot;

Possible Answer:
Of course, Norine (&lt;strong&gt;Carrie Nye&lt;/strong&gt;) is obviously eating the dish best served cold: REVENGE!

As to what &lt;strong&gt;Lumet&lt;/strong&gt; is telling us, I suspect it has something to do with having an unhealthy appetite for life or something equally deep. The base instincts that Norine lives by may indicate that she is not as refined as the girls from the Ivory Tower, but she sure knows her bad self. 

Btw, I like &lt;strong&gt;Carrie Nye&lt;/strong&gt;&#039;s bemused reaction when Helena (&lt;strong&gt;Kathleen Widdoes&lt;/strong&gt;, saddled with one of the most thankless roles of all, that of &quot;the sexless mule&quot;), comments drily that &quot;one can live without sex, you know&quot;...I half expected &lt;strong&gt;Nye&lt;/strong&gt; to say, &quot;Not in this movie, sister.&quot; 

Poor &lt;strong&gt;Joanna Pettet&lt;/strong&gt;. I got to the point in this movie around the time when she was freaking out over the idea of paper napkins being used when served with her theatrical soirée&#039;s déclassé chili, where I started to think, ah, if only Kay had been born in the Prozac Age. So much sturm and drang would have been easier for her. But Harald probably would have taken her prescription right along with her fragile self-respect--and then tell her she asked for it. 

&quot;And which character raises the blood pressure more with their nervous, restless energy, Joanna Pettet as Kay here or Jennifer jason Leigh as grown Selena in DELORES CLAIBORNE?&quot;

I think &lt;strong&gt;Joanna Pettet&lt;/strong&gt;&#039;s Kay wins hands down over &lt;strong&gt;Jennifer Jason Leigh&lt;/strong&gt; in the edgy nervousness sweepstakes. Leigh&#039;s character in &lt;strong&gt;Delores Claiborne&lt;/strong&gt; just seemed more exhausted (physically, emotionally and spiritually) than nervous to me, (perhaps she was hungover or just had nervous leg syndrome, since she 
did seem to have a tough time sitting still). 

Thanks so much for dropping by, Bronxie. You&#039;ve given me lots to mull over.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bronxgirl asked:<br />
&#8220;Has anyone been able to figure out what it is that Carrie Nye is EATING as she’s having that little talk in her boho apt. with the sexless mule? Is it yoghurt? Is it sheep dip? Is it ranch dressing? Just what is the white stuff she’s sinously slurping down with that giant spoon? (is Lumet telling us something?)&#8221;</p>
<p>Possible Answer:<br />
Of course, Norine (<strong>Carrie Nye</strong>) is obviously eating the dish best served cold: REVENGE!</p>
<p>As to what <strong>Lumet</strong> is telling us, I suspect it has something to do with having an unhealthy appetite for life or something equally deep. The base instincts that Norine lives by may indicate that she is not as refined as the girls from the Ivory Tower, but she sure knows her bad self. </p>
<p>Btw, I like <strong>Carrie Nye</strong>&#8216;s bemused reaction when Helena (<strong>Kathleen Widdoes</strong>, saddled with one of the most thankless roles of all, that of &#8220;the sexless mule&#8221;), comments drily that &#8220;one can live without sex, you know&#8221;&#8230;I half expected <strong>Nye</strong> to say, &#8220;Not in this movie, sister.&#8221; </p>
<p>Poor <strong>Joanna Pettet</strong>. I got to the point in this movie around the time when she was freaking out over the idea of paper napkins being used when served with her theatrical soirée&#8217;s déclassé chili, where I started to think, ah, if only Kay had been born in the Prozac Age. So much sturm and drang would have been easier for her. But Harald probably would have taken her prescription right along with her fragile self-respect&#8211;and then tell her she asked for it. </p>
<p>&#8220;And which character raises the blood pressure more with their nervous, restless energy, Joanna Pettet as Kay here or Jennifer jason Leigh as grown Selena in DELORES CLAIBORNE?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think <strong>Joanna Pettet</strong>&#8216;s Kay wins hands down over <strong>Jennifer Jason Leigh</strong> in the edgy nervousness sweepstakes. Leigh&#8217;s character in <strong>Delores Claiborne</strong> just seemed more exhausted (physically, emotionally and spiritually) than nervous to me, (perhaps she was hungover or just had nervous leg syndrome, since she<br />
did seem to have a tough time sitting still). </p>
<p>Thanks so much for dropping by, Bronxie. You&#8217;ve given me lots to mull over.</p>
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		<title>By: Bronxgirl</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/09/16/in-the-loop-with-the-group-1966/#comment-10044</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bronxgirl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 23:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=14326#comment-10044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;it&#039;s BEANS, Norine, BEANS!!&quot;

What a treat for us, thank you moira me darlin&#039;.

Has anyone been able to figure out what it is that Carrie Nye is EATING as she&#039;s having that little talk in her boho apt. with the sexless mule?  Is it yoghurt?  Is it sheep dip?  Is it ranch dressing?  Just what is the white stuff she&#039;s sinously slurping down with that giant spoon? (is Lumet telling us something?)

And which character raises the blood pressure more with their nervous, restless energy, Joanna Pettet as Kay here or Jennifer jason Leigh as grown Selena in DELORES CLAIBORNE?





Barb]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;it&#8217;s BEANS, Norine, BEANS!!&#8221;</p>
<p>What a treat for us, thank you moira me darlin&#8217;.</p>
<p>Has anyone been able to figure out what it is that Carrie Nye is EATING as she&#8217;s having that little talk in her boho apt. with the sexless mule?  Is it yoghurt?  Is it sheep dip?  Is it ranch dressing?  Just what is the white stuff she&#8217;s sinously slurping down with that giant spoon? (is Lumet telling us something?)</p>
<p>And which character raises the blood pressure more with their nervous, restless energy, Joanna Pettet as Kay here or Jennifer jason Leigh as grown Selena in DELORES CLAIBORNE?</p>
<p>Barb</p>
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		<title>By: kingrat</title>
		<link>http://moviemorlocks.com/2009/09/16/in-the-loop-with-the-group-1966/#comment-10042</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kingrat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 00:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moviemorlocks.com/?p=14326#comment-10042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Moira, thanks for writing about The Group, which held my interest despite its many failings. The strength of some of the material and some of the performances carries us past the less successful parts. Watching The Hill and The Group back to back during the June salute to Lumet was startling. The Hill is stunningly well directed; surely only a great director could manage the spectacular opening of that film, yet Lumet has great difficulty staging some of the scenes in The Group. The scene at the funeral home is shockingly bad: a few of the women sit on chairs against the wall, and all the dialogue is voiceover. If I remember correctly, Pauline Kael wrote that this scene came out poorly, but they didn&#039;t want to spend the money to re-shoot.

What if Jane Fonda or Vanessa Redgrave had played Kay? I couldn&#039;t agree more with you about Joanna Pettet. The script isn&#039;t sure what to make of Kay, and Pettet lacks the star power that would fill in the gaps for us. The script is structurally a mess, with Dottie seeming to be our main character, but then she disappears, and the last part of the movie is mostly about Polly, who wasn&#039;t important at all for the first half of the film. Everyone&#039;s eager to find out what&#039;s happened to Lakey, but then she doesn&#039;t have much to do when she finally reappears. Buchman and Lumet would have done well to drop Pokey and Helena, at the very least, and thread the other characters throughout the whole picture. 

Love your suggestions for a 1930s Group! Bette Davis as Kay would solve a lot of problems. By the way, I believe Kael wrote that Lumet and Boris Kaufman worked hard to achieve the faded-out look of the colors, so it was a conscious choice. You&#039;d think this film would be out on DVD, given the later prominence of Candace Bergen, Larry Hagman, and Richard Mulligan on TV.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moira, thanks for writing about The Group, which held my interest despite its many failings. The strength of some of the material and some of the performances carries us past the less successful parts. Watching The Hill and The Group back to back during the June salute to Lumet was startling. The Hill is stunningly well directed; surely only a great director could manage the spectacular opening of that film, yet Lumet has great difficulty staging some of the scenes in The Group. The scene at the funeral home is shockingly bad: a few of the women sit on chairs against the wall, and all the dialogue is voiceover. If I remember correctly, Pauline Kael wrote that this scene came out poorly, but they didn&#8217;t want to spend the money to re-shoot.</p>
<p>What if Jane Fonda or Vanessa Redgrave had played Kay? I couldn&#8217;t agree more with you about Joanna Pettet. The script isn&#8217;t sure what to make of Kay, and Pettet lacks the star power that would fill in the gaps for us. The script is structurally a mess, with Dottie seeming to be our main character, but then she disappears, and the last part of the movie is mostly about Polly, who wasn&#8217;t important at all for the first half of the film. Everyone&#8217;s eager to find out what&#8217;s happened to Lakey, but then she doesn&#8217;t have much to do when she finally reappears. Buchman and Lumet would have done well to drop Pokey and Helena, at the very least, and thread the other characters throughout the whole picture. </p>
<p>Love your suggestions for a 1930s Group! Bette Davis as Kay would solve a lot of problems. By the way, I believe Kael wrote that Lumet and Boris Kaufman worked hard to achieve the faded-out look of the colors, so it was a conscious choice. You&#8217;d think this film would be out on DVD, given the later prominence of Candace Bergen, Larry Hagman, and Richard Mulligan on TV.</p>
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